Reduced WCoL Mana Cost - Cast It 6 Times?
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- crierdms
- Seeker
Hey
If you have heard or not, the war chant of light spell costs less to cast now than before, with diminishing cost as the mana bar grows lower. It is now possible to get 5 WCoL with 35 Intelligence, whereas before it required 45. My question, is it now possible to get 6 WCoL out of a full mana bar? Thanks in advance.
If you have heard or not, the war chant of light spell costs less to cast now than before, with diminishing cost as the mana bar grows lower. It is now possible to get 5 WCoL with 35 Intelligence, whereas before it required 45. My question, is it now possible to get 6 WCoL out of a full mana bar? Thanks in advance.
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- Gabriel
- Awakened
Actually... none of this is true.
War chants still cost the same amount as before.
As you use mana, there is room for your mana to regen. Your mana regens constantly, but your bars only refresh every fifteen seconds or when something happens to affect them (you get hit or healed or cast a spell). Say you recover 75 mana/15 seconds. That's 5 mana every second. Now let's say you cast a WC, which costs 225 mana at level 15. Your mana drops from 1225 to 1000. It takes 3 seconds to cast. You cast another WC. Your mana SAYS it's at 1000, but really, it's at 1015 (3 seconds from casting the spell * 5 mana recovered a second = 15 mana regened). So now your mana says it's at 790 (1015 actual mana - 225 for the war chant = 790 left) when you were expecting 775. It LOOKS like the WC was 15 mana cheaper, but really it just used mana you had recovered without showing it.
It's why when you hit an injured spirit with 430 HP left and you do 460 damage, it's still there with 15 hp left. It's been regenning even though it doesn't immediately show.
Now, your VITALITY level, THAT might affect how many WCs you can get from your pool, because that's controlling how much mana you regen every second. If you've recently increased your vitality, you'd find that yes, you can get more WCs off with less mana because you're recovering more in the time it takes to cast.
War chants still cost the same amount as before.
As you use mana, there is room for your mana to regen. Your mana regens constantly, but your bars only refresh every fifteen seconds or when something happens to affect them (you get hit or healed or cast a spell). Say you recover 75 mana/15 seconds. That's 5 mana every second. Now let's say you cast a WC, which costs 225 mana at level 15. Your mana drops from 1225 to 1000. It takes 3 seconds to cast. You cast another WC. Your mana SAYS it's at 1000, but really, it's at 1015 (3 seconds from casting the spell * 5 mana recovered a second = 15 mana regened). So now your mana says it's at 790 (1015 actual mana - 225 for the war chant = 790 left) when you were expecting 775. It LOOKS like the WC was 15 mana cheaper, but really it just used mana you had recovered without showing it.
It's why when you hit an injured spirit with 430 HP left and you do 460 damage, it's still there with 15 hp left. It's been regenning even though it doesn't immediately show.
Now, your VITALITY level, THAT might affect how many WCs you can get from your pool, because that's controlling how much mana you regen every second. If you've recently increased your vitality, you'd find that yes, you can get more WCs off with less mana because you're recovering more in the time it takes to cast.
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- crierdms
- Seeker
Disagree. I've tested it, with results showing how much mana you left and how much it costs to cast one WCoL. I only hit the spirit once at each amount of mana left, and checked the mana left IMMEDIATELY after hitting it. I did this many times, and several time I checked too late (i.e., lagged or missed button several times from trying to get to it as fast as possible. I have been reading the forums, and have heard the same logic regarding dewarp speeding up mana recharge. GiantDong even explained to me that 35 mana would be sufficient for 5 WCoL.
Written as X mana (left when cast WC), costs X (mana for one WC)
201 mana, costs 200
411 mana, costs 200
481 mana, costs 200
515 mana, costs 205
565 mana, costs 205
695 mana, costs 205
700 mana, costs 210
892 mana, costs 210
921 mana, costs 210
950 mana, costs 215
1055 mana, costs 215
1100 mana, costs 225
Written as X mana (left when cast WC), costs X (mana for one WC)
201 mana, costs 200
411 mana, costs 200
481 mana, costs 200
515 mana, costs 205
565 mana, costs 205
695 mana, costs 205
700 mana, costs 210
892 mana, costs 210
921 mana, costs 210
950 mana, costs 215
1055 mana, costs 215
1100 mana, costs 225
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- Gabriel
- Awakened
I... don't understand what your table proves. You're taking into account all of the vitality regeneration?
At 1005 mana, it costs 225 for a war chant.
At 900 mana, it costs 225 for a war chant (these are max mana costs for my research account, so there's no possibility of regen skewing the numbers)
At 1005 mana, it costs 225 for a war chant.
At 900 mana, it costs 225 for a war chant (these are max mana costs for my research account, so there's no possibility of regen skewing the numbers)
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- crierdms
- Seeker
No, what I did was:
1. Lose most mana
2. Look at mana, say I have 201 left.
3. After that, cast ONE WCoL on a spirit
4. Check mana left IMMEDIATELY. I have one mana point left.
Repeat.
1. Lose most mana
2. Look at mana, say I have 201 left.
3. After that, cast ONE WCoL on a spirit
4. Check mana left IMMEDIATELY. I have one mana point left.
Repeat.
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- Gabriel
- Awakened
And how much time was spent from when your mana last refreshed itself through when you checked how much mana you had and closed your profile and pulled down your rune layer and drew the spell and released it...
That's what I mean. Your mana regened during all that time, making your spells look cheaper than they actually were. 25 mp off means 5 seconds of regeneration at 75 mana regen. Just 5 seconds. And there's no way you can check your mana and cast simultaneously, so you definitely had SOME regen that you need to take into consideration.
That's what I mean. Your mana regened during all that time, making your spells look cheaper than they actually were. 25 mp off means 5 seconds of regeneration at 75 mana regen. Just 5 seconds. And there's no way you can check your mana and cast simultaneously, so you definitely had SOME regen that you need to take into consideration.
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- crierdms
- Seeker
The only reason I tested this is because some time earlier, both Masterplaid and GiantDong said that while previously, you needed to have 45 mana to get 5 full WCoL, you can now achieve it with 35. They both argued quite heavily on the topic. I am looking for confirmation of this by someone else, as I am not infallible. Also wondered if it's possible to get 6 war chants on a full mana bar.
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- Gabriel
- Awakened
45 int gives you exactly 5 war chants with absolutely no vitality regeneration taken into consideration. As a result, you have extra mana left over, which allows for some slop from warps or when Arias were more expensive.
35 int gives you exactly 5 war chants WITH vitality regeneration taken into consideration.
My leveling up guide says 45, so that's the 'previously' bit. GD then tightened things up so more AP can go toward your attributes.
It IS possible to get 6 war chants on a full mana bar with max vit and pretty high int (but not 6 harvests due to a difference in casting times), but I've never figured it worth it so I don't have the exact build needed for that.
35 int gives you exactly 5 war chants WITH vitality regeneration taken into consideration.
My leveling up guide says 45, so that's the 'previously' bit. GD then tightened things up so more AP can go toward your attributes.
It IS possible to get 6 war chants on a full mana bar with max vit and pretty high int (but not 6 harvests due to a difference in casting times), but I've never figured it worth it so I don't have the exact build needed for that.
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- crierdms
- Seeker
Ahhh thanks for clearing that up. In an earlier thread it was stated that 6 full WCoL was impossible. Just wanted to clear that up.
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- crierdms
- Seeker
One thing I still don't understand....
Let's say that my current mana is X and in the time it takes to open profile, close profile, etc. I regen 25 "hidden" mana. After casting one WCoL, I would end up with X + 25 - 225 for my total mana.
At 201 for X, i end up with 1 mana, as shown in my table as "200" for cost.
At 700 for X, I end up with 490 mana, as shown as "210".
201 + 25 - 225 = 1
700 + 25 - 225 = 500 =/= 490
How is it that, when the time for vit regen is the same, do the costs differ? The only thing that changes is the mana that I am shown, or X. This leads me to massive amounts of confusion and to the belief that mana cost for one WC goes up as mana shown (X) goes up.
Let's say that my current mana is X and in the time it takes to open profile, close profile, etc. I regen 25 "hidden" mana. After casting one WCoL, I would end up with X + 25 - 225 for my total mana.
At 201 for X, i end up with 1 mana, as shown in my table as "200" for cost.
At 700 for X, I end up with 490 mana, as shown as "210".
201 + 25 - 225 = 1
700 + 25 - 225 = 500 =/= 490
How is it that, when the time for vit regen is the same, do the costs differ? The only thing that changes is the mana that I am shown, or X. This leads me to massive amounts of confusion and to the belief that mana cost for one WC goes up as mana shown (X) goes up.
Edited by crierdms (Nov. 6, 2011 04:14:34)