CHADJ - you have yet to address those people directly pointing out that the glitches put them places out of their control.

GPS is erratic and if all of these are, as they seem, in similar GPS areas normally, then that is a pattern that should be reviewed. Many patters should be reviewed. The detection system is a point of argument.

If this is about location and the detection is suspect then it bears review.

If review of a valid argument is too big a can of worms for GA to open....if GA is afraid of having to actually deal with contention in the face of a valid disagreement, like a bad dictatorship (really, in Helsinki?)...well they will lose some of us. Whether that loss is big enough to affect their business is one they seem willing to take. Too bad.

Bannister
I'm hating the secrecy here. Why won't you just say what these players have "done wrong"? What did they do that made them liable to be banned? These, in the words of Chad, "all we are willing to reveal" excuses are getting under my skin. I can understand keeping Shadow Cities updated and bug-free being a challenge, but this is absolutely ridiculous.

Maybe it's a privacy issue? Maybe their (or Apple's) lawyers are telling them not to let out this kind of information about players in a location-based game, which can easily be used to track down players in real life.

Bubbie

GPS is erratic and if all of these are, as they seem, in similar GPS areas normally, then that is a pattern that should be reviewed. Many patters should be reviewed. The detection system is a point of argument.

If this is about location and the detection is suspect then it bears review.

It can be about location without having much to do with GPS. Do you really think GA don't know how erratic GPS can be? Location abuse can be something else than spoofing your gps coordinates.

How about this scenario:

- Player A gets banned for using an exploit to gain an unfair advantage in gathering energy.
- Player B finds out about the ban and the reason. Player B has been A's competitor and has lost the 1st place on the leaderboard to A many times.
- Player B gets mad about the cheating.
- Player B knows from the game the general area where Player A lives/works and knows from FB how A looks.
- Player B goes and physically attacks Player A.
- Player A files a charge against Player B AND Grey Area.

I'm not surprised GA isn't discussing bans and banned players openly. Location based games are sensitive and have privacy issues.

And to those worried you might accidentally be banned from the game:

It's very very VERY easy to figure out which "features" are part of the game and which not. This is a fairly simple game in that sense. If you are unsure about something, DON'T DO IT! If you accidentally do something and the result seems like a glitch, DON'T DO IT AGAIN! It's that simple.

Yes, GPS can be erratic, but GA isn't banning people for erratic movements. They are banning people who exploit and gain advantage using dodgy methods in game.

And no, I'm not saying that they haven't banned "innocent" players. I have no way of knowing that and neither do most of you. Only the players themselves know for sure.

I know some of the players (in game and real life i mean) banned and I'm 100% sure they were sure of not using features which were not part of the game.
BUT apparently there were something wrong but they don't even get warned.
And they still don't know when they did something wrong or even what they did wrong.

As a conclusion we must believe GA and just shut our mouth... Sorry but i don't agree with that.

Edited by BotenRomeo (May 25, 2012 07:03:13)

Lazarus
Maybe it's a privacy issue? Maybe their (or Apple's) lawyers are telling them not to let out this kind of information about players in a location-based game, which can easily be used to track down players in real life.

But that wouldn't be a problem if the banned player gives his/her consent to the data being published, which I feel certain at least some of the banned players would.

The issue is more that GA doesn't want to give us any information on the capabilities and limitations of their tracking system. I can understand their reasons for this, but, as is obvious by now, it creates other problems instead.

I'm fully aware that it is entirely possible that each and every player GA has banned actually has cheated systematically. But lacking any evidence supporting this, I need to make a decision based on if I trust GA more than people with - from the evidence I have - a consistent track record of being decent human beings and completely honest players. And I don't trust GA quite that much at this time. The claims they are making seem extraordinary to me and many others, thus they need to supply extraordinary evidence for me to accept them.

Edited by Kropotkin (May 25, 2012 08:01:25)

Boten, not only will I assume you are not a programmer, but I will also assume you know very little about server/client data.. So let me point out a few things..
1, I am a programmer, and have worked on GPS location app and games
2, every time you sign into sc, a time/location file is saved to the app.
3, that file is used to compare time/location of last login with the previous file
4, most in game glitches (like blast warping) cannot be detected, the reason it's possible is because of server/client delay
5, GPS, cellular triangulation, and wi-fi location data are buggy at best, and all can change depending on many many things.. Even weather can cause false location readings
6, when you close the app, it's time/location stamped "last seen ___ minutes ago" when you sign back in your location data is compared.. So let's say, your crash out of the app.. Sign back in a few seconds later, and your GPS puts you 100 miles away.. Have that happen a few times and.... Ban!

It was not nearly as much of an issue before, but now with the massive lag, non stop crashes, and login loops, that data is recorded and compared a LOT more often.. Thus, leading to innocent players being banned

This means that
A, The tools GA uses are giving false positives and leading to bans.. Or
B, GA really doesn't understand the tools, how to fine tune them to work properly Or
C, these "tools" are really 3rd party software and there is not much GA can do about it other than find better tools

And just to clairify, it doesn't have to be location based, it can be anything from the ToS
Which means all it would really take is for a few people to get mad at a player and email player support saying so and so is stalking me, or spawn camping me, or harassing me. A few screen shots and Ban! Violating the ToS
Seeing how 2 of the top scoreing players in the NEBG were banned, I would say that could have very well been the case. The point is, unlike other company's GA is not giving a reason for banning.. Just a general responce, and that's what this is all about! It's cause and effect, without the effect.. GA needs to tell these players EXACTLY why they were banned, not just some pre-written letter says "violated the ToS"
It needs to tell why.. "Dear _______ your account has been banned because of a violation to section __ article ___ of the ToS" it's Innocent until PROVEN guilty, if these players are guilty.. Give them/us the proof!

DoMortas

6, when you close the app, it's time/location stamped "last seen ___ minutes ago" when you sign back in your location data is compared.. So let's say, your crash out of the app.. Sign back in a few seconds later, and your GPS puts you 100 miles away.. Have that happen a few times and.... Ban!

Do you haven ANY evidence that GA has actually banned anyone for a reason like this? Do you think they haven't worked with GPS data and are not aware of its problems and quirks? They have stated many times that people won't get banned for random location changes or erratic movement. The players need to exploit the glitches and get an unfair advantage over others before they are banned. Do you really think GA would ban someone for harmlessly appearing somewhere where he's not supposed to be in game? They would be very poor businessmen, if they did that.

There are other ways to cheat location than spoofing your gps location. For example, account sharing.
Most likely the bans are a result of something that allows the players to gain energy in a false location. Logging into a "wrong" location by accident doesn't fall into that category.

DoMortas

This means that
A, The tools GA uses are giving false positives and leading to bans.. Or
B, GA really doesn't understand the tools, how to fine tune them to work properly Or
C, these "tools" are really 3rd party software and there is not much GA can do about it other than find better tools

D, You are making false assumptions on the reasons players were banned.

Kropotkin

I'm fully aware that it is entirely possible that each and every player GA has banned actually has cheated systematically. But lacking any evidence supporting this, I need to make a decision based on if I trust GA more than people with - from the evidence I have - a consistent track record of being decent human beings and completely honest players. And I don't trust GA quite that much at this time. The claims they are making seem extraordinary to me and many others, thus they need to supply extraordinary evidence for me to accept them.

Yes, I understand. My situation is the opposite. I know some GA staff personally and have met most of them. And I'm finding it very hard to believe they would do something as stupid as kicking out their customers without a very good reason.

However, I haven't talked with them about this and probably won't. And I'm trying to stay objective about this and see things on both sides.

I guess I'm bit of a cynic, but I haven't yet met an online player who I could vouch for 100% in a case like this. Only the banned players know the full truth.